“The Indian Runner” Meets His Destiny
“The Indian Runner” Meets His Destiny
By Del Moon, NSGA PR Specialist
Mark Woommavovah, 56
Lawton, Oklahoma
It’s not that unusual to see a runner carrying a flag or banner in a race. But there was something about Mark Woommavovah’s proud demeanor and spirit as he proudly hosted the colorful flag of the Comanche Nation and charged into the 2023 National Senior Games 5K race in Pittsburgh. We had to find out more.
To our surprise and delight, we discovered that Mark is the elected Chairman of the Comanche Nation, located on the Plains of southern Oklahoma. He is also the author of a popular children’s book, “The Little Indian Runner.” This man has layers.
Mark’s is a truly remarkable story of a prophecy fulfilled, as you will find reading our edited conversation below. Mark was raised by grandparents on his rural native land. His “Grandma Vida” recognized his energy and put him to work running messages from Indian house to Indian house, gathering gossip and stories to share in the community. She also told a very young Mark something that he did not understand until he was an adult: that he would grow up to leave his land, travel the world and return to serve his people.
In junior high school Mark earned the nickname “The Indian Runner.” He is still running today.
Mark obtained a U.S. Army ROTC scholarship to the University of Oklahoma and launched a 31-year military career, traveling the world and running in events wherever he served, from the beaches of Hawaii to Korea, Malaysia and even within Iraq’s green zone – in full Kevlar and flak vest. He also organized Army Ten-Miler running teams on his bases and brought that practice back home when he retired and returned full-circle to OU as the Senior Military Instructor for their ROTC program. One of his teams competed and won silver in the Army Ten-Miler college division. He is still a talent scout and advisor, but his people called on him to lead them.
In 2020, some tribal members urged Mark to run for Chairman. Applying the military discipline and organization he learned, Mark recruited a team that included tech-savvy college-aged tribal members. His social media and in-person campaign crossed all boundaries, and Mark was elected in a landslide.
Learn more about the transformative practices Mark Woommavovah has instilled with his people in our conversation. He is a true leader and role model, focusing on the team and uplifting people’s lives. We are proud Mark comes to Senior Games and are excited that he wants to keep his ‘elders’ healthy. He even plans to officially sponsor a large team of Comanche senior athletes to come to the 2025 National Senior Games in Des Moines, Iowa!
Mr. Chairman, thank you for making time to share your story. Our first question is about your name. What does Woommavovah translate to in English?
The name means ‘One Who Encourages.’
Amazing. It seems you were anointed from birth!
Yes, sir.
You have another name, Mark. People call you ‘The Indian Runner.’
I acquired that name when I was in junior high. I ran the 800-meter, the mile, the two-mile, and two- mile relay.
Vida Woommavovah, Mark’s “Kaku” (grandmother) and inspiration.
You could have gone in many directions growing up in a poor rural area. It seems obvious to us that somebody put you on a straight path as a child.
It was my grandmother. She and my grandfather raised me. ‘Grandma’ in Comanche is Kaku (kah-ku). She told me something that I did not understand when I was a very young boy. She said, ‘You’re going to travel the world…’ [emotional pause]…and that I was going to meet people, and that I was going to come back and serve our people.
Your ‘Kaku’ was a wise and visionary woman.
Yes, sir. After school I joined the Army. Later I went to the University of Oklahoma and joined the Army ROTC on a two-year scholarship. I graduated as a military police officer and left the area for 31 years, served our country and came back to retire in 2019. My first job was teaching Army ROTC as the Senior Military Science instructor at Oklahoma. So, I went full circle, getting commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant and returning as a Lieutenant Colonel to teach the freshmen class there after three decades. That’s pretty cool!
Then ‘The Indian Runner’ became Chairman of the Comanche Nation in 2021. How did that happen?
It is an elected position. Some friends came to me and asked me to run for office.
What I did was to put together a young campaign team and got a couple of books about how to run a campaign. We all met – I called it war gaming – and dissected the books and went to town. These young people set up our social media platforms, set up our fundraisers like tournaments and meet and greets, and people never knew what hit them. Usually whoever has the biggest family wins, but I won by a landslide.
I tell you, these young, educated Comanches are bringing technology to us, and we’re giving them the ability to exercise their voice.
Wow, congratulations Mr. Chairman! That’s a huge responsibility to represent your people. Sounds like you are bringing change there.
Yes. When we came in, I asked leadership and the full-time staff if we had a vision or mission. They weren’t sure so I said we don’t. It had to be short, concise and must bring our people together. I had the first part: Comanche Strong, and the people came up with the second part. Our vision is ‘Comanche Strong- Stronger Together.’
And it has brought our people together. Any time I go to a meeting or event I yell ‘Comanche Strong!’ and everyone shouts back, ‘Stronger Together!’
Just to be clear, Mark, is there a Chief of the tribe plus the Chairman?
The Chairman is the Chief. We are set up with a Chairman, Vice Chairman and Secretary-Treasurer, plus four business committee people that run for election. I am the only full-time staff member of this group. We have monthly meetings and an annual general council meeting that we call ‘The Peoples Meeting.’ We are a sovereign nation, so we govern ourselves – we have everything from fire, police, court, every program and food distribution among our departments and divisions.
Of the 17,792 Comanche members, 7,000 live within the jurisdiction of the Nation which covers several Oklahoma counties. The others we call Non-Locals, and here’s what I tell them: No matter where you live, you are Comanche.
The Army provided you with the opportunity to travel the world. Did you run everywhere you went? Was it competitive running?
Yes. And no matter where I was stationed, I would always get our soldiers involved and start battalion and company running clubs. We entered 5 and 10ks, half and full marathons and I coached all of the teams. Our physical fitness tests improved, and their health improved because we added fitness and engaged our Army nutritionist so they would be eating right.
I also was the coach for Army Ten-Miler teams and ran with those teams. We took teams to Washington, D.C., to compete in the Army Ten-Miler, which is the largest in the States.
How long were you doing that?
Oh, I was in the Army Ten-Milers until I retired. Even after that, at OU I organized the OU ROTC Ten- Miler Team with our ROTC cadets. In 2019 we took a Ten-Miler team to D.C. to compete in the college division, and believe it or not, they came in 2nd on the big stage! We also organized the Sooner Battalion Running and Triathlon Club.
Your current position must not leave you time to continue as an instructor.
I am still the Leadership and Talent Scout for them. I bring them referrals, usually high school student athletes.
Mark’s book, “The Little Indian Runner,” is dedicated to his nephew, Lucas, who is pictured here.
Before we go further we want to acknowledge you are also known as an author of a children’s book called ‘The Little Indian Runner.’ Tell us how it came about.
I was training an Army Ten-Miler team in Waikiki, Hawaii. I used to go to Barnes and Noble to read and I heard this giggling from the back of the store. It was a children’s book reading. It was amazing to see the enthusiasm and seeing them react to the teacher. I immediately called my wife and said, ‘I’m going to write a children’s book.’ She goes, ‘OK. What are you going to write it about?’ I asked her, ‘What do I love?’ and she immediately said, ‘Running!’ [Laugh]
I got online and did research for how to self-publish and how the process worked. And here’s the way I wrote the manuscript: On my runs I would put 3×5 index cards and a pen in a plastic bag and stuff them in my shorts. When I thought of something I would stop, take out a card, make notes and put them back in my shorts. Then I sat at the computer and drafted the manuscript.
My grandma was an inspiration for the story. I used to run house to house delivering messages for her before we had land lines in our rural community. Of course, I got the messages wrong half the time! [Laughs] But you will see the book opens with him running through his tribe, and he sees his grandma, his friends, his uncles and aunties. I brought our Indian foods into the story, and we end it with a modified version of the Lord’s Prayer.
We dedicated the book and are donating some proceeds to my nephew, Lucas Owens, who has autism. Every year we also sponsor the Peace Walk for Autism with t-shirts and banners.
Mr. Chairman, yours is an incredible history already, and you are still a young man. You’re also very busy, so please tell us how your attention turned to Senior Games.
I read about it online when I found out about the National Veterans Golden Age Games, which only veterans can compete in. I haven’t competed in those games yet because I first wanted to represent our state and the Commanche Nation, so I entered Senior Games. I don’t like to talk about myself, but I took first place in the 5K and the triathlon at the Oklahoma Senior Games, and that took us to the National Senior Games in 2022 and 2023.
What’s more important is that I am bringing in other senior tribal members who are now participating. I’ve invited other tribes who are now getting involved. In fact, one of my Kiowa brothers just finished first in the triathlon in the Oklahoma Senior Games.
You are being a true role model.
Here’s what I learned from the military: Everyone watches the leader. That’s why I lead from the front. I’m at every walking event, every running event, every biking event. Since I came in, we have used our community grants to put on 5K runs and spirit rides, and we formed a group called Comanche Road Warriors. They have a Facebook page. We also formed a group for our seniors called the Wisdom Warrior Walkers Club. We walk regularly and go to the mall when it’s cold outside. We give them goals and incentives. Last year it was to walk 100 miles and if they met the goal, we would give them a banquet. We had 22 elders complete their 100 miles, and some completed 150, 200, even 300 miles. We fed them and rewarded them with FitBits so they can track it. [Raises voice] Ohh, that was the best feeling in there because we had the elder center staff show them how to use the technology!
Sorry, I get excited talking about this.
Mark pictured in Hawaii (left) and Iraq (right).
No apology necessary!
Let me tell you what has also happened. They are able to control their diabetes and blood pressure now. They’re healthy and not sitting in front of the TV all day.
So here is my plan for our Nation and the other tribes who live in this area: There are good golfers, runners, softball, basketball and pickleball players here. We are going to put teams together, we’re going to find sponsors for them, and we’re going to go to the Senior Games.
You mean to the Oklahoma Senior Games?
We are going to compete at the state level so we qualify for Nationals. We are going to invest in them and find sponsors for our seniors.
WOW! That is true leadership. It was an inspirational moment when we saw you running with your flag in our 5K. Now you will have company!
People around the state, and even at the federal level, call me ‘The Running Chairman.’ I run with my flag at every event. I always carry our colors. Always! Because I carry the weight for my people. [Emotional Pause] I carry the flag for those who can’t run. [Pause] I run for those who can’t walk. [Crying] I carry it for our veterans. They show up at races and cheer me on. It’s because of our colors, it’s not me. They don’t salute the person, they salute the flag. We are Comanche.
Now you have us emotional, Mark. Your heart is in the right place, and you are highly successful because the military prepared you for what was to come.
Absolutely. 100 percent. I’ve taken those military values and processes and I’m injecting them into our sovereign nation. I’m not being over-military; I changed the words. For example, what we called an After-Action Report in the Army is called Event Review.
It’s also a lesson in the power of teamwork.
First, I let our people know it’s not I or me, it’s us. WE are doing this together. They just happen to have a leader who is motivated and enthusiastic, a leader who will support them and listen to their ideas. I’m the Chairman that they can approach.
We have a team now, a positive team that’s making a difference in building connections in our local community, and partnerships that we haven’t had in the past. All I am is the vehicle to move it forward. In that vehicle are key leaders who understand the meaning of inspiring and motivating people and giving them the tools they need to be successful.
We are Comanche Strong, Stronger Together!
- Published in 2023 PB, News and Events, Personal Best Featured Athletes
A Three Generation Legacy
Dwight Smith, 94
Terry Smith, 74
Christi Smith Daigle, 51
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
The theme for the 2023 National Senior Games presented by Humana is “Bridging Champions Through the Ages,” placing a spotlight on the intergenerational impact of Senior Games on families and society. The idea came from seeing so many children of senior athletes aging up and joining in the fitness, fun and fellowship that Senior Games are known for.
With so many two generation families popping up, we wondered if there could be a three-generation family coming to The Games. With Dwight Smith, Terry Smith and Christi Smith Daigle all signed up to go to Pittsburgh, we believe they will be the first such family to compete in National Senior Games.
Dwight Smith, like so many other longtime senior athletes, is a strong believer in fitness and encourages others to participate for the health and enjoyment of sports. At 94, he presents an irrefutable argument for keeping active. In our edited conversation with the three Smiths, we discover that Dwight actually used sports as way to get closer with his son Terry after realizing he had been so busy running a business that he had not been as engaged as a father in earlier years. He invited his son to start jogging with him, and later recruited Terry into basketball. The two are now closely bonded and have enjoyed seeing each other playing with their respective basketball teams in national competitions.
Terry enjoys basketball but has turned more attention to pickleball. Enter Terry’s daughter Christi, who was approaching 50 and realized she needed to up her fitness game. It was “Paw Paw” Dwight who suggested she pick up the paddle too. Terry and Christi did their research and got into the game recreationally. When Christi expressed interest in also going to Senior Games, Terry got the idea of playing mixed doubles with his daughter, which means father and daughter will have to compete in her hotly contested 50-54 age group.
Both Christi and Terry know their medal chances are slim, but that’s not the point. They have been transformed by sport, and the spark that ignited it came from the patriarch. The family is excited to know they are unique and Christi is already musing about having Smiths continue to participate down future generations.
Overcoming challenges, setting goals and practicing a healthy lifestyle are all Personal Best characteristics for successful aging. In this case, it’s a family affair sparked by a man who decided to get fit at age 50 and changed his life – and ultimately the lives of his loved ones.
Dwight, you have been a familiar face with us. How long have you been in Senior Games?
I played in my first Senior Games in 1993 and I have participated in every Nationals since that time with the exception of 2015.
I played in every sport that they would put out there to start off with. But in the last 15 years I’ve just played basketball. My team is the LARKS and we just went up an age group. We did not have enough for an 85 plus team last time, and we finally got that now.
Dwight in action 2008
So given your age, you are “playing down” with younger guys in their 80’s!
Yes, that is what I am playing. I’ve had a couple of people call me this year saying, ‘Let’s put together a 90 plus team.’ I said, ‘We can do that but we wouldn’t have any teams to play.’
What was your sporting life like growing up, Dwight?
I just played in high school, and I played all of the sports. I married my high school sweetheart when I was 18 years old, and we had a son when I was 19. Consequently, although my team had won a state championship in basketball the year that I graduated, I did not put my hand on a basketball or set foot on a basketball court after that until I was 63 years old.
In the time in between, did you play other sports?
I did a little jogging but I only started that after I was 50 years old. A fellow had invited me to come down to play basketball, and one day it was raining. I do construction work, so I said, ‘I’m going to go down there but I’m no going to like it.’ I went to the local health club anyway. There was a bunch of old men out there and they were trying to pass the ball and they were playing a little defense. I said, ‘You know, maybe I would like this.’ That is what got me started again playing basketball when I was 63 years old.
LARKS 85+ 2022 (L to R): Don Hoeppner (91), Bob Wiley (89), Glenn Vremenkamp (89), Lloyd Kempf (88), Wayne Greathouse (87) and Dwight Smith (94).
I’ll bet you had to shake off some rust.
Well, it was one thing for sure because I was getting older and I had been saying that I couldn’t do certain things and I didn’t like that. So it seemed right for me to get out and tell myself, ‘I believe I can get back in shape some way.’
You’ve won some medals over the years?
We actually won the first gold medal that was ever given in new 85-80 age group in 2017. I think we’ve won six or seven silvers and a couple of bronze. We won the silver four straight years, then we won the gold, and the following year we won the silver.
The family says you have a healthy history. Have you ever had any setbacks?
I’m fortunate, but there was one injury on the court that almost sat me down. When I was 75 or 76 years old we were playing basketball at the local gym, and as I was driving to the basket one of the fellows who was guarding me stuck his finger in my eye and I lost this eye completely. Now I had only one eye vision causing me to rethink, rehab, redesign and adjust the way I played the game of basketball in all phases of the game. With some retooling and especially God’s help I was able to overcome and continue competing in the game of basketball. That was a major step for me.
Now we know your history, tell us about how your son Terry got involved.
He and I both still work at the construction company, Industrial Enterprises here in Baton Rouge. I started it in 1967 and we have done all kinds of work in Arkansas and Louisiana. Terry always helped me. Now it is switched around and I am helping him and I don’t know if I like that or not. [Laugh] We did worlds of work at LSU. Every parking lot LSU has, we have done it. We also built the first all-weather running track at LSU and Southern University.
Terry is 74. He and I were not real close growing up. I had work running this construction company and he was growing up all of a sudden. So, I decided that I needed to do something and I said to him, ‘Hey, we don’t know each other too well. Let’s start doing something together.’ We started jogging.
Terry never played the sports in high school, he just chased women. [Laugh] One day about 25 years ago he just walked out on the court at the gym and started playing basketball. Of course, he never played and it took him a while, but he has participated in several Nationals and his team has won gold three times. He still plays basketball and wants to get into pickleball because of his knees. He will make a real good pickleball player. Terry has qualified for basketball and he is going to play pickleball in Pittsburgh.
Let’s bring in Terry to continue this story. How is it running the business your dad built?
TERRY: Dad likes it because he knows he taught me well and I learned it well. I found very few opportunities to change anything he taught me. He is a smart guy and he did everything right. Have no real reason to change anything that he set up for his company.
You did manage to turn your attention away from chasing girls to chasing sports as an adult!
How did Dwight get you into basketball?
I had been going to the gym and he and some of his fellows invited me to play. I wasn’t really interested in playing, but then one day they were a man short and I was recruited from the treadmill out to the basketball court by him.
I had fun with them. I was only 49 years old and they were ancient. They were 20 years older than me and I thought maybe there’s something to this basketball because these guys were healthy and they were beating me and knocking me to the floor. It was a real challenge. I had to rise to their standard as I played with them for a few years.
It’s so great that sports brought you and your dad closer together.
Oh, it did. When we played locally back then the age range was anywhere from 45 to 65 and all those guys were much better than me because I had never participated in team sports. But going out there with my father – what a treat that was. I was getting taught by him and I absolutely loved it, and still love it.
I didn’t know the game that well but I was feisty so I went to National Senior Games and had a really good time. He was playing basketball with his team, 20 years older, and I was playing with my team, 20 years younger, and we had a ball. It was awesome to be playing with my dad in a different city in the same arena.
I actually don’t play much basketball anymore and I am now mainly interested in Pickleball because of my daughter Christi who just turned 50 and wants to play at Nationals. I will be her doubles partner.
Wait. You are 74 and you want to play pickleball in a 50-54 group?
That’s correct. I can’t play up in basketball with my father, but I can play down with my daughter. I’ll be enjoying being in National Senior Games with my daughter and my father.
I never thought I was going to get to play pickleball with my daughter and it is going to be so much fun. It is going to be great to cheer on my father when he plays basketball, and for him to cheer me and Christi when we play pickleball.
Now, let’s get Christi to chime in here. So your dad has enough energy to play with a younger generation?
CHRISTI: Oh, he has a lot of energy. He’s just full of action, adventure and just full of anything exciting. You would never know his age based on his level of activity.
Were you a gym rat growing up?
Oh no, not at all. I didn’t really start to get interested in anything fitness until I was probably 40 years old. That’s when I decided I’m gonna start doing something to be healthy. I didn’t want to be on medicines and all that kind of stuff when I got older, so I started to make healthy choices and getting involved in different things. I started off with Zumba and yoga and I still do yoga on a regular basis.
When I started hitting 49, I really needed to up my game so I decided to become certified as a barre fitness instructor. I completed that certification last summer. I wanted to have that under my belt when I actually rolled over into 50. My dad has attended my barre fitness classes. It is fun and funny because he is the only male in there. So, I get to see my dad every Monday and Thursday.
Then when I became 50, Paw Paw said I could qualify for these Senior Games. I never really thought about it in those terms because I was always the spectator. We’ve been all over the country watching Paw Paw since he started.
I asked Paw Paw what the heck I could even do and he said, ‘Well Christi, you need to pick up that Pickleball paddle.’ When he said that, it hit me like a ton a bricks and I thought, ‘Hey, I could.’ So I just started playing locally and dad came out there with me and my sisters and we would just hit the ball around and pick up the rules as we went. We accepted guidance and did a ton of research and it became a hobby on Saturdays. It started off as just talk and now here we are.
So you’ve only been playing pickleball for about a year?
Exactly. It’s only been a year or so I’m still new to the sport and it’s very exciting and fun. It’s something that I can do for a long time ahead.
Given your newness and playing with a guy 24 years older, you should know you two are probably going to get smoked in competition.
Oh, for sure. I am counting on that. [Laugh] He is so athletic and has always been flexible, so he would really be an asset to me as my doubles partner.
When I went to the qualifying event it was funny because all these ladies were so experienced and all I could do was put on my tennis skirt and my visor and just get out there and do my best. You could tell their level was so much higher than mine, and maybe they didn’t appreciate that so much. At one point I just remember holding my hands up and saying, ‘OK ladies, ladies, ladies, I’m here to make you feel good about your game!’ I was I struggling to stay out of the kitchen and I was struggling to do all the things that you’re supposed to do to keep up with those ladies.
I always feel like there’s so much room for improvement. I’ve got so far to go but no matter what my level of expertise, I’m still having fun every time I get out there.
Smith extended family, 2014
Both your dad and Paw Paw must’ve been great role models.
I remember when I was a young kid my dad and Paw Paw would always take a morning jog around the neighborhood. They were just always involved in something physical -my dad playing racquetball and Paw Paw being the basketball star. They were both very good role models and examples but not in a pushy way. You don’t really realize how cool it is until you kind of look around and realize OK, well not everybody’s Paw Paw is doing this, this is pretty awesome!
They’ve always just been super active. Paw Paw taught my son how to play basketball – and that’s his great grandfather! It’s just something that kind of runs in our blood. I’ve never been a very athletic type naturally. All of my skills are learned through practice. I’m petite and have just never had the athletic build, but as I’ve gotten older I’ve really valued health and natural wellness and living a long healthy life. That is way more important than what’s on the outside.
Did you work at the construction company?
No I don’t work at the company. I’m a licensed clinical social worker. I work in the school system and deal with mental health, and you know that mental health and physical health is such an important connection to have. One feeds into the other, so I’ve really been able to experience the connection firsthand through different cases and my professional life, and in my personal life.
Do you have kids in sports, Christi? Will this legacy continue?
I have two. Gabriel is 14 and he is on the tennis team, the only freshman on his high school tennis team. I beg him to come out and play pickleball with me, but he just isn’t having it yet. He’s got tennis down pat. Breanna is my daughter played tennis in high school. She plays recreational sports at LSU.
It would be awesome if generations of Smiths down the line were still in the National Senior Games. My grandfather is just such a force and he’s the gentlest force you have ever known. It is an incredible journey that we are able to take with him.
Terry, what do you appreciate most about what Dwight has accomplished and inspired all of you to follow?
TERRY: He really is doing great for being in his 90s, and hopefully I got some of those genes. He never crammed anything down my throat, and he always encouraged me and allowed me to be my own person from both a business and personal standpoint. He has never lived his life through me to continue anything.
I look at him and all of his peers today at 74 and I want what they have. There are not many weaknesses with him and his generation. I am sure it is lifestyle and some of it is being born the right way. But even if you are born not in the best health, you can still get yourself there.
- Published in 2023 PB
Reversed Roles
Jody Smith, 61, Atlanta, Georgia
Jody Smith should have been named Jody Sports. It’s been her passion for as long as she can remember, and basketball was her favorite pastime. She was a standout player in high school and college and has been inducted into her college hall of fame.
Jody and her husband Mark modeled active lifestyles to their three children, and all found paths to play sports and enjoy fitness. They both helped coach teams and encouraged their kids to find their own path as they grew. The youngest daughter, Kylee, had a standout career in high school and then at Vanderbilt and later Belmont College, and she went on to a semi-pro career playing overseas before returning home to start her own social media business.
During Kylee’s sojourns Jody discovered back home in Atlanta she could play competitive basketball in Senior Games. In the edited conversation that follows, we discovered that Jody has a Pittsburgh connection because she grew up in nearby Butler and had her college career at Grove City College. A younger college alum emailed Jody and persisted to get her to join the Butler 55+ team to compete at the 2022 National Senior Games in Fort Lauderdale. She did and helped the team earn a Bronze medal for their efforts.
Jody was blown away and inspired by the environment at The Games and seeing older women mixing it up on the floor. She was overjoyed knowing she now had a future enjoying this. But she was most grateful that her children came to see her play and wished her own mother was alive to see it. For Kylee, she had heard stories of her Jody’s dominance in her youth, but it was the first time she watched her actually play in a game. Kylee, who credits her intense competitive streak to her mom, could not keep herself from being a coach yelling out advice and encouragement, just as her mother had done when Kylee was on the court. The roles had reversed, and appreciation for the sport experience deepened for both women.
As our talk with Jody (and Kylee chiming in) you will see how Senior Games athletes have a powerful impact on those around them and particularly down the generations. She presents tangible proof that you can enjoy doing active things and have optimum health and well-being well beyond the stereotypes of aging that persist in society. Jody Smith now knows this to be true, and her children do too. How about you?
Welcome to Senior Games Jody! You live in Atlanta but play with a Pittsburgh area team. What’s the connection?
I am from Butler, Pennsylvania and left many years ago. I now live in Georgia. I played basketball at Butler High School and at Grove City College in Pennsylvania.
I got an accounting degree and worked in Butler for a little bit. Then my husband Mark went back to school to get his masters and we moved to Ohio for a bit and I worked a few places there. I was blessed to be able to stop working to raise the kids. We went from Butler to Ohio to Minnesota and then we moved to Georgia, and we’ve been there ever since.
So you’ve always been athletic?
Yes. For as long as I can remember I have loved sports. I was always playing sports like pick up baseball with the guys over at the elementary. My brother is five years older and I was always wanting to play with him and his friends. Of course, he didn’t want to play with his little sister, so I would go to my mom crying and say, ‘Chuck won’t let me play!’ and she would go outside and tell him to let me play.
When I graduated from college, my brother had become a policeman in Butler, and Mark and I joined the police basketball league. I was the only girl on the team!
How did you find out about National Senior Games?
I got an e-mail from Heather Starcher, who also played basketball and knew of me from Butler and Grove City. But she is five years younger so our paths never crossed in high school or college. She introduced herself to me at an alumni game at Grove City.
She told me about the National Senior Games in her email and asked me to play with her team. I had never heard of it before and I was just shocked that I had not. At first, I was like, ‘Oh my gosh that sounds like so much fun’. Then I looked into it and thought, ‘Oh, that’s going to take a lot of work!’ [Laugh]
It took me a couple weeks to get back to her and I asked how long can I have to think about it. Heather’s response was, ‘As long as it takes you to say yes.’ [Laugh] So I kept going back and forth about it. I was in shape and active, but I was worried because I hadn’t touched a basketball in forever. With me, If I can’t do it well, then I’m not going to do it.
I started shooting and practicing and after a couple weeks my husband started pushing me to do it because I was having so much fun. He said he would come to watch me play. Between them pushing and my starting to dribble and shoot again, I told her yes. Fort Lauderdale was my first National Senior Games. Our Butler 55+ team came in 3rd place so we got a bronze medal.
Jody and Kylee celebrate Mom’s bronze medal.
What was the biggest enjoyment of playing in a national tournament?
It was really having my kids being able to see me play basketball, which they had never gotten to see before. They’ve watched me play tennis but not my best sport. It was special to have them there, and my brother came along too.
The only thing I wish is that my mom had been there. She passed away a few years ago. My dad died after my college years, and they never missed anything. With my mother recently passing, I wish she had been alive to see this because she would have been in her glory watching me play again.
Your daughter Kylee was there. She took your path into college basketball, right?
Kylee played basketball at Vanderbilt and then decided to transfer to Belmont. The coach at Belmont recruited her in the University of Georgia and it was the best four years ever. My mom loved following Kylee through her Belmont days too. After that Kylee went pro and played in Germany, Ireland, and for several seasons in Australia.
Did any of your other kids follow your example in sports?
Well, my oldest daughter Kara went back and forth on playing basketball in college and ended up deciding she wanted to try to play. She did play at McDaniel College, a small school in Maryland. She played one year and decided the school was too small and wanted to go to a city school. She ended up transferring to Georgia State University and played intermural.
My son’s name is Erik and he was an awesome athlete. He played basketball, lacrosse and swam. Anything he wanted to do he could pick up. But he took to music. He is an engineer, and his weekend job is with an 80’s tribute band in the Baltimore area. He is the lead guitarist in the band and they are very popular up there.
Kylee is with us, let’s ask her about this. What was it like to see your mom play senior basketball?
Kylee drives to the goal playing pro ball in Australia in 2021
KYLEE: I had just moved home in March because I was still playing professional ball in Australia up until then. When I got home, I had the opportunity to go to one of her games and thought it was awesome that my mom is doing this. It really made me sit back and realize how lucky I am.
You hear stories of my mom being a legend. She was inducted into her college Hall of Fame and like five other hall of fames. So I know how amazing she is but I never got to see it. I haven’t even seen old game footage because I don’t think they had the technology back then. So then seeing her play now, I was like ‘Oh my gosh this is so surreal.’ She was at her peak when she was 20, and she’s dominating at her age now and she’s so good.
JODY: After every game, we had a girl on our team who always wanted a picture with the other team. So we would line up every other person, their team and us, and we would take a goofy picture. Kylee would always take those pictures since she works in social media.
So Kylee, were you tempted to coach her from the sidelines?
KYLEE: I’m super competitive and I know I got that from my mom. So I was getting protective and feisty at her game because these girls were like beating up on her. [Laugh] Also, when I am playing I hear my mom’s voice in my ear telling me to shoot when I’m open. She wasn’t shooting when she was open so I was yelling ‘Shoot!’ It was definitely roles reversed.
I have always been fiery and competitive, so sitting there and trying to be like ‘Yay! Go mom!’ was impossible because I wanted to coach, help and tell her everything she told me when I was growing up.
JODY: I couldn’t believe how physical the National Senior Games were. It really shocked me. I was knocked to the ground multiple times. I was thinking, ‘I’m 60 and I am picking myself off the floor.’
Butler 55+ (L to R): Shelly Klinek, Heather Starcher, Jody Smith, Kathy Ridilla, Julie Simeone and Delta Zahniser
Did you have time for sports while you were raising the kids, Jody?
I did play basketball and softball when we were in Ohio, and I helped coach the Cuyahoga Falls High School team. I went to some open gyms and got to know people there and coach. We moved to Minnesota with a baby and then I eventually had two more kids there but played basketball in a guys league neighborhood team that we got together. I played for years on that team, and I played softball in a women’s league too.
I had a lot of good neighbors that didn’t have family around and we all helped each other out. When we moved to Georgia, I got involved in a Mormon church league. Yeah, they’re big in basketball so they asked me to play and I did. There were always two to three great players on each team and I was always guarding somebody good. It was a lot of fun until the good people decided to go into a league in Atlanta. We tried it for one season but we were a little over our head. There were a lot of ex-WNBA players and we weren’t as talented so we gave it up.
So you did stop playing for a time before you found the Senior Games.
Yeah, there was a big lapse in playing, more than 15 years. There really wasn’t much after we realized that the Atlanta league isn’t for us and I don’t know what happened with the Mormon church league.
But I stayed busy with three kids involved in all kinds of stuff. Kylee, who’s the youngest, played travel soccer, swimming and basketball all at the same time. I know that put a kibosh on my playing but I stayed active during those years. I got very involved in tennis and my basketball experience helped me with that. I coached my daughters, and my husband coached our son until they got to high school.
Kylee, how much of an influence did your mom have on you and your siblings?
KYLEE: Like mom said, I was a swimmer and played soccer and basketball, and in middle school I was playing all of them. Seeing my mom and dad being active and watching them do what they did even as adults, I always knew that I can stay active just like them.
Even to this day, being 28, I know I don’t have to stop being active and I don’t have to stop playing sports. You don’t even realize it as a kid, but you look up to your mom and I still do. All of that plays an integral part in what I wanted to do. Staying fit and healthy was what we were taught. It was also great that they could care less like if we were good, they just wanted us to do what we loved and be healthy. I didn’t know any different because they led the way. I always thought ‘Well, they are active so I am going to be active.’
You and Mark did a great job of parenting, Jody.
Our goal was just to expose our kids to as much as possible and let them figure out what they wanted. My husband played basketball and we were all into basketball and watched it all the time. Kylee had the advantage of having two older siblings and she’d sit there with us as we analyzed all the games that were going on. She is the youngest and I think sometimes she could soak up more that way because she got to watch her older siblings. She was blessed to get on an AAU team at a very young age. There were great coaches and players.
Does Mark think he will get into The Games?
Mark is still working and he goes to the gym to shoot and lift every week. He had a blast at Nationals watching with our two girls and my brother who drove down from Texas to Florida to watch the games.
Were you inspired to see so many other women out there mixing it up at this age?
I was just happy. I was amazed to watch the 80-year-olds playing. Watching them I’m like, ‘This is just awesome. I hope this is me 20 years from now!’ I wish I had known about it when I turned 50.
Funny thing is that my dad wanted me to get into golf or tennis and I said, ‘Dad, I have too much basketball I have to be playing’ and he said back, ‘Jody, you aren’t going to be playing basketball when you are 50.’ I vividly remember him saying that, and if he could only see me now – I am playing basketball and I am 60.
What position do you play?
Sometimes I play point guard and other times shooting guard. It depends on where they need me. I have always been aggressive, and I can shoot. But I like to drive and either take the shot or pass to somebody else for an open shot. So, with me being aggressive, I have more people guarding me and that would leave somebody open.
You have a passion for tennis, too. Any plans to compete in that sport?
Basketball was always my thing, but tennis has taken over and is another thing for me to try and master. I have thought about doing it at Nationals, and I have also thought about swimming. I swim for exercise. The basketball was very taxing but I am in good shape. Those four days in Fort Lauderdale were rough. I played with the 55 team and I was exhausted. I don’t go at anything easy! I’m just going to stick to basketball at Senior Games for now.
But it was so much fun to play again, and I met some great people that I will stay in touch with. Everybody was so nice. Everybody’s friendly and talking to you about where you are from and blah blah blah. It was just socially fun. The competition was great too.
When you get to 50, do you think you will be playing basketball in Senior Games, Kylee?
KYLEE: Oh, 100%. God willing that I am able, I will for sure, there’s no question about it. Your dreams don’t need to have age limits. There is no expiration date on things you want to do.
- Published in 2023 PB
Making Space for Sports
Larry DeLucas, 72
Birmingham, Alabama
There are many singular achievements that can be made in sports, but only Larry DeLucas can say he once slam dunked a basketball weightless more than 250 miles above Earth.
That’s one of the interesting facts discovered when we followed up on the rumor that there was an astronaut playing in the 2022 National Senior Games presented by Humana. Sure enough, Larry is a bioresearch scientist and optometrist who beat out 50 others to be allowed to conduct his experiments on Space Shuttle Columbia in 1992.
Larry competed in Bowling at Nationals in Florida and intended to play Table Tennis and Cornhole before he had to leave early for a family emergency. But his first experience there has convinced him to keep Senior Games on his calendar.
In the following interview, Larry gives us a fascinating personal look at his other worldly experience and details his professional path obtaining five degrees over 12 years paired with the grueling astronaut selection process. It’s a picture of perseverance and dedication that evokes a sport comparison of training for years to try out for the Olympics.
The sport reference is especially relevant when Larry says he has been motivated his entire life by Basketball. Larry’s not tall and did not get to play at the college level, but the court still captivated his imagination and he continued to find time to play all the way up to his shuttle launch. In the interview he speaks reverently of his hoops hero John Havlicek and the letter from the Boston Celtics legend that he cherishes.
One thing also became clear from our talk. While there were many factors that led to Larry earning his ride, a lifelong commitment to physical fitness gave him some advantage in the selection process. He also believes that everyone can have an advantage with healthy aging if they simply find a sport or recreational activity they love and never stop doing it. That is a trait for pursuing your own Personal Best, and Larry DeLucas is one fine example of that.
Congratulations Larry. Let’s talk about space first. How did you get up there and what was the work you performed on the Space Shuttle Columbia?
I am not a pilot, I am a scientist. I had been conducting protein crystallization experiments in space for many years. My experiments, I mean, not me. [Laugh] I published many papers and always wanted the chance to fly with my experiments because the weightless conditions often result in a better crystal versus here on earth. We always had to take our best guess regarding what conditions would be best for the space experiments. What I proposed to NASA was that in space I can look at the results and based on what I see, optimize the next solutions I set up to produce a better crystal.
The process of getting selected is like getting an enema with a fire hose. [Laugh] It is not easy. I tried several years to be nominated and I couldn’t even get to the first step. But because of all the publications I submitted over five or six years, I built up a reputation and was finally nominated with about 50 others. The scientists that had experiments on the mission I was hoping to be selected for, each have one vote for who will fly (31 experiments so 31 votes) and based on resumes they narrow it to the top 12 out of 50. The top 12 then travel to Houston to undergo a three-day physical, and provided you pass the physical, the 31 scientists then interview you.
I sat in the middle of a semi-circle surrounded by 31 scientists and they can ask you anything. Most of them asked about their own experiments and they were all over the board – a bunch of combustion type experiments, fluid dynamics experiments, three different types of crystal growing experiments, and several medical ones.
STS-50 Columbia crew – Larry is on far right.
In addition to being a biochemist I am also an eye doctor. By luck, NASA wanted one of the crew to give eye exams to the other six crew members and there I was. So, my reputation, publications and knowledge about the 31 different experiments, allowed me to get into the top two. I then competed with a scientist who was chairman of his department at Worcester Polytechnic Institute. We competed for a year.
The 31 scientists whose experiments were selected for the mission came from different universities and two NASA research centers. They would teach us in a classroom the theory behind their experiments and they would film us performing the experiments in the lab to see who was doing it well and who wasn’t. After a year of that, we took a final oral exam that lasted four hours. Questions were like, ‘If this were to go wrong, how would you fix it?’ and both of us could answer those questions. Then the scientists voted who gets to fly and who becomes the backup. I was interviewed first for about 4 hours and at the end of the day, I got a call on my cell phone that I had been selected to fly on the Columbia Space Shuttle, mission STS-50. Right there in the airport I started crying.
Nice. Sounds like it takes the same effort and dedication as an athlete trying for the Olympics.
I have five college degrees and I spent 12 years getting them. There were times I didn’t see the light of day or weekends or anything. I was getting my Doctorate of Optometry while I was working on my PhD degree in Biochemistry. Optometry is not easy. You are typically taking five or six courses each quarter. Imagine taking neuroanatomy and then running down the street to be in an advanced physical chemistry class required for my biochemistry degree. Then when I didn’t have class at night and on weekends, I was in the lab working on my dissertation research. I almost had a nervous breakdown going back and forth but I made it through.
Larry in seat with suit
Was any part of your space experience more challenging?
Everyone is always asking, ‘What was the hardest part of the space flight?’ It was not the launch but coming back. As we’re coming in for landing, I looked down at the monitor for my heart rate and blood pressure and it went off the charts. Normally at that time I was running 6 miles a day and my heart rate was about 55. I was in incredible shape! So, when I looked down at my monitor, my heart rate was about 140 and my blood pressure was something like 180 over 130. There was sweat coming off me because I was about to puke. My heart rate kept fluctuating from 120 to 80 back to 120 in two seconds. It was racing and then would rapidly slow down because it wasn’t used to gravity.
Being physically active and playing sports couldn’t have done anything but help you make the cut to go to space in the first place.
The Medicine Balls
Yeah completely. When I give career talks, I tell how I started out. All I cared about was sports. I first started on the baseball team and the basketball team, and basketball became my true love even though I’m not that tall. I played in high school but never played on a college team. However, all through 12 years of college I played on intramural teams. After college I continued playing intramurals as a faculty member at the University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB).
We had a team at UAB where I received all my degrees and other than me all the other players were physicians. I was the one scientist. The name of our team was the Medicine Balls and we had one heck of a reputation. We won the campus championship five years in a row against all the fraternity teams and everybody else. The Medicine Balls practiced three days a week early in the morning. That’s the only time the physicians could do it. We’d get to the gym when it opened right at 6 a.m. and, play full court for an hour, then everyone went to work. I played right up until my space flight.
It’s good you kept exercising and playing. Your studies must have taken up most of your time.
There was a period for about four years I felt I wasn’t married. I was constantly at the lab or studying. I think I just wanted so much to succeed and make something of myself.
You signed up for bowling and table tennis in the 2022 National Senior Games. But it seems that basketball is your favorite sport.
I hurt my shoulder in space, and when I came back, I couldn’t even reach the goal from the foul line anymore. I had to have a lot of physical therapy, but I still have very little strength above my arms. When I reach up my arm hurts and my whole shoulder starts to hurt. Sadly, I don’t regularly play basketball anymore, but what I can do is bowl, so I took it up bowling just to stay in the game.
This is kind of a crazy story as an example of my passion for basketball. My heroes from a little kid growing up were players on the Boston Celtics, and my biggest hero was John Havlicek. I liked him more than anybody because he never asked for more money, he never complained to the referees, and he stayed with Boston his whole career. He never gave up. They called him the non-stop professional because he ran up and down the court and no one could keep up with him. He wasn’t the greatest shooter, but he got a lot of garbage points by his hustle.
I have a photograph of him in my office and I always thought how he didn’t give up and no matter what I wouldn’t give up either. When I got a little depressed, I thought about him and it made me keep going. I’ve always liked sports and that competitiveness also helped me through the difficult times as I earned all five of my degrees.
I’m not kidding. I met the basketball coach at UAB here in Birmingham and told him about Havlicek being such an inspiration. He said, ‘I know him and I’m gonna get him to send you an autographed picture.’ He tried for six or seven years, and every time Havlicek was supposed to be somewhere for whatever reason he didn’t show up or something happened. Finally, the coach calls Rick Pitino and he goes to lunch with Havlicek and talks about this astronaut that really wants this so Havlicek signs the picture made personally to me.
When the coach brought it to my house he said I should write Havlicek a letter about what it meant to watch him and how he conducted his life. So, I wrote him this long letter about how he got me through so much, and he wrote me back! It’s just a phenomenal letter and I have it framed in my living room.
My Will and Testament says I’m to be buried with it. That’s how much sports and having a hero like him made me get through so many hurdles.
That’s a great story Larry. Basketball is as big as space for you!
I’ll tell you this story of my love for basketball. I was allowed to take 50 personal items into space and those must fit in a very small box. I begged NASA let me fly a basketball hoop and basketball. They wouldn’t do it but did allow a plastic basketball goal with suction cups and a Nerf ball. I put the goal on the wall when I got up there. I first recited a basketball poem, then I spun the ball with my finger on top and said, ‘OK Michael Jordan, let’s see you do this!’ Then I floated upside down, bounced off the walls, slam dunked and ripped the goal right off the wall.
Now, when I make presentations to children, I show the video of me slam dunking the nerf ball and I always say, ‘You’re looking at the only person in the world that beat Michael Jordan’s hang time.’ [Laugh]
Watch Larry’s ‘Space Jam’ Dunk Video Here!
When did you start bowling?
Poo happens Delucas ball
I think I started in ‘96. My son was a student at Vanderbilt University, and he was on their SEC bowling team. He’s bowled 300 several times so he got me started. I never did it before then.
I’ve never bowled a 300, but I have scored 290 twice. My average last year was 195 to 198 in three different leagues. But last year I went to the Senior Games in Fort Lauderdale and struggled. I did terrible until I finally figured it out. I changed to another ball and where I was standing on the lane, and I started finally helping my doubles partner. We missed the bronze medal by 11 pins and got a 4th place ribbon. I’m going to win one next time I’ll tell you! So, this year I bowled very well in the Alabama seniors state qualifying tournament and ended up winning gold in doubles, mixed doubles and a bronze medal for singles.
I also participated in cornhole, winning gold in doubles and mixed doubles and believe it or not, I decided to participate in basketball! I still cannot reach the goal if more than 15 feet away, but I practiced with a team for a few months prior to the tournament, lost 45 pounds and our team (age bracket 70-74) won the gold medal! So now I have three different sports that I qualified in for the 2023 Nationals.
We saw a photo of you holding a bowling bowl with the “Poop emoji” on it. What’s that about?
[Laugh] Poop Happens. My kids gave me that for my birthday a couple years back. We have this tradition on Thanksgiving called the Turkey Tournament and everyone in my family must bowl. At Christmas, it is called the Santa Tournament. My daughter makes up these little trophies out of paper mache that she hands out. The winning team does snow angels on the bowling alley. I have two sons, and when they got married, during the rehearsal dinner, I presented their wives with scented bowling balls on a platform that was wheeled in so that they know they must learn how to bowl if they are going to be in the family.
You were scheduled for table tennis but did not show up. What happened?
What I told everyone after the Senior Games was, ‘You’re looking at the greatest husband in the world.’ I was scheduled for table tennis and corn hole. My wife was back in Birmingham and is handicapped. She fell down and had to be taken to the emergency room, so I got this text message from her that said ‘I need nurturing’ so I drove for 10 hours that day all the way back home. So, I tell people I gave up a gold medal for my wife. [Laugh]
Larry working at his “glove box” onboard the shuttle.
Now that you’ve been to your first National Senior Games, are you going to continue in Pittsburgh?
Oh yes. When I saw how good so many of the table tennis contestants were in Florida, I decided this year to stick to bowling, cornhole and basketball.
I do have something of a Pittsburgh connection. I am president of a pharmaceutical company I formed here in Birmingham, and I also work part-time for Aerospace Corporation. A public pharmaceutical company, Predictive Oncology Inc., acquired my company and one of their main companies is in Pittsburgh. I’ve never gone and visited the company in Pittsburgh, so I’m looking forward to visiting them when I come to compete.
Is your family following your example with sports?
Yes. My children are all in one sport or another. My son-in-law was captain of the basketball team at Saint Andrews where he got his college degree. He’s from the South and so it’s a tradition of course to ask for permission to marry my daughter. One day he comes into the kitchen and says, ‘Mr. DeLucas, I need to ask for your daughter’s hand. Would you give me permission to marry her?’ I replied, ‘Andrew, if you want to marry my daughter there’s only one way I’m gonna let you do it- you have to beat me in a game of horse.’
I have a basketball goal in my driveway. I said, ‘You know it’s my home court, so I’ll let you go first.’ He’s 6’7” right, so he dribbles up, does a 360 and slam dunks it over the back. I said, ‘OK Andrew, do whatever you want with her.’ [Laugh]
Your experiments are cutting edge science. It’s probably complicated, but can you briefly describe a little more about your mission for us?
Training for Zero Gravity on a specially-rigged jet. “The Vomit Comet”
My experiment was to grow better crystals and bring them back to earth. You expose them to an X-ray beam at a synchrotron and you can determine where every atom is in the protein. It’s important to understand how proteins work in our body or in bacteria or viruses, but it’s also important because once you see where all the atoms are then you can design a little tiny drug to go in and block the action of a protein if it’s causing some disease or important for the replication and spread of a bacteria or a virus. This is the way many of the AIDS drugs were developed. Many new drugs today are developed using a protein’s structure, even to develop vaccines like the COVID vaccine. The structure of a protein, also called the epitope on the surface of the Covid virus was used to design the vaccine.
So structure is very important when you develop drugs. The weightless environment of space often produces higher quality protein crystals, and this leads to more accurate structures. That was the purpose of my protein crystallization experiments, but I also grew semiconductor crystals used for all kinds of electronic purposes.
Another crystal growth experiment is used as one of the final processes to purify gasoline. I also performed several fluid dynamics experiments. Without gravity, everything fluid sticks to surfaces due to surface tension. You can design surfaces that will pull the liquid where it needs to go just by taking advantage of surface tension. So, I performed experiments with all kinds of funny shaped containers and then photographed how the liquid moved along the surfaces.
I also gave eye exams and that was unbelievable. I dilated four crew and when I looked at their retina everyone had petite hemorrhages. When you go to space, the lack of gravity causes a shift of fluid upward increasing pressure in your head and the little retinal capillaries start to leak. After we landed everything was normal again within a day or two, no harm but if you stay there for six months or longer, we have now learned that it causes a permanent loss of astronaut’s peripheral vision, similar to patients who have glaucoma due to excessive intraocular pressure. This has happened to several astronauts that have been up there for extended periods on the International Space Station.
What message do you share with others about your experience?
I think the message they get from me is do something you have a passion for and do it with perseverance. I use the connection to my time in space and just my whole career. It’s a combination of hard work and never giving up. But the first slide in my presentation shows Bob Cousy, the first pro basketball player I met personally. My uncle was a coach in summer camps with Bob, and he brought the whole team to our house. That was fun.
I also talk about some of the roadblocks. I’ll never fly in space again, but I almost didn’t go at all. I was playing basketball two years before I got selected and did something I don’t usually do. I’m only 5’9” but I went in for a rebound and this big guy elbowed me right in the eye and detached my retina. I had an ophthalmologist tack it down with a laser but thought, ‘OK there’s no way I’m getting selected now.’ I was so scared they would kick me out because of a detached retina in my medical report.
Oh my! But you got in anyway.
I got lucky. When I went for that big NASA physical the guy comes in to give me the vision exam and I started to say, ‘I need to tell you…’ He looked at my medical record and said, ‘Larry, you don’t need to say another word. You’re an optometrist. I’m an optometrist, and by God you’re gonna be the first one to fly in space!’ He took this gorgeous photograph of my macula but not the periphery where I had the retinal tear and that’s all the big shot medical guy at NASA ever saw. Can you believe that? [Laugh]
Amazing! What a lucky break came out of that adversity.
My point is that many people probably would have said, ‘I’m not even going to try’ but I just had to. Everyone asked why I studied Optometry at the time I was getting my PhD in a field called crystallography. People had just learned how to use crystallography to determine large protein structures. Because it was so new, only a handful of universities were doing this kind of research. I thought at the time I’m never going to find a job after graduation.
I used to go exercise at the gym and play full court basketball. One night I’m running down the court and I knocked over this older guy. Turned out he was the Dean of the School of Optometry! I helped him up and we talked. I told him what I was doing and that I was thinking of dropping out of Graduate School. He said, ‘Optometry needs someone to understand how the visual system works and all those proteins involved in vision. You go get your PhD degree in crystallography and at the same time go to school to become a Doctor of Optometry and we’ll hire you immediately.’ It just so happened because of my love for basketball, I was lucky there too.
- Published in 2023 PB, Personal Best Featured Athletes